When we have somewhere we want to go, we often just think about where we are and where we want to go. We often overlook the roads that take us there and the work that is put into roadway management. Joining Abhijit Verekar on today’s podcast is James Golden, the Founder and CEO of Pavement Management Group. James talks about roadway management and how it can be upgraded and improved. His company focuses on the engineering industry, pavement management, and maintenance. Learn more about roadway management in this episode.

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Listen to the podcast here:

Intelligent Pavement Management with James Golden, CEO, PMG

This one is a little different. I don’t have a city manager or a CIO, but I do have somebody that’s making waves in municipal technology in a completely unexpected field. My guest is James Golden, the CEO of Pavement Management Group. He runs a company that is doing outstanding work. James, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here. I love the show and I love what you’re doing. I’m hoping to add value from a different perspective to your audience.

When I first started the show, I was telling my wife and my friends, “I’m going to have a show that talks to city managers.” They’re looking at me weird like, “What?” I am now talking to a guy that specializes in pavement. Tell me how you got here and what brought you to this profession.

Those that do know me well know that I like to ramble. I’m going to do your audience a service and give you the short-condensed version. I’m a unicorn, man. I’m this interesting guy. I’ve been involved in this pavement management niche my entire career. I got started at the ripe old age of nineteen years old. I had the privilege of learning under a municipal engineer background, construction engineer, that type of an individual. He created this consulting type of service and was reaching out to a similar demographic just like you, municipalities, counties, townships. He got started here in Ohio. He was leveraging his engineering, construction, and preventive maintenance experience to consult with city managers, city engineers, roadway superintendents, public works directors. He helped them identify issues with the roadway networks as a whole like a bird’s eye view and then leverage systems.

There’s the IT type of perspective, databases, GIS systems, and things along this line with some nice forecasting tools. We can collect all this data and analyze it and then create long-term programs to maximize taxpayer dollars. I started out at nineteen years old with boots on the ground. There’s no other way to explain this thing. I was a young man. I had a child. You’re out of high school, just get married for better or worse. That’s how I was making my mark. I was at Central Ohio Technical College going through the Drafting Design program. I was working as an intern at the Ohio Department of Transportation. You know that old saying, “It’s not what you know, it’s who you know.” That was taught to me at a young age.

I’ve always been entrepreneurial, doing some things and networking even as a kid. I had a friend or an acquaintance of the family reach out to me one day. He knew I was interning at the Ohio Department of Transportation. He knew what I was going to school for and he had a good friend that needed a laborer for the summer to do all these data distress capture and identifying these distresses. He reached out to me and called me at 7:30 in the morning. I’ll never forget it. It’s an old school landline. Back in the day, we didn’t have all those cell phones. I was living with my mom at the time. She handed me the phone. This guy’s name was Harry and he said, “I’ve got someone I need you to meet. He’s interested with what you’ve got going on. Here’s his phone number, give the guy a call.” I didn’t ask a question, I just did it.

I called this man up and he said, “Meet me at Tim Hortons. I’d like to talk to you about this thing called pavement management,” and the rest is history. That’s how I got my start. I was working for this man who had been in the industry, working as a director, as a maintenance engineer, and then leveraging his construction background to do all this stuff. He was getting to a point where he was growing a little bit. You do one, you do another. The biggest aspect of this whole thing was collecting the data. I started at nineteen with boots on the ground. I had an ASTM standard manual of all these different distresses that can occur within concrete pavements and asphalt pavements. He gave me a little bit of a system to follow and I went at it.

For those of us that don’t understand what pavement management is, you grow up and you don’t realize how much it takes to keep pavements up. You expect there to be a road where you want to go. What is pavement management?

It’s true and every day I’m learning from more people as we grow our followings and influences, and as we grow older in the industry. For someone that’s been doing this my whole life, it’s second-hand nature, but you realize, what is pavement management? I’m not going to give you the tech Webster’s dictionary definition. I’ll give you the James Golden definition. It’s all about how do we identify the right treatment to apply to the right pavement asset and do that at the right time. When you piggyback off of that concept right there, that’s what pavement management is. There are different approaches, different methodologies, different pavement management systems, the software side that hold all of this data. That’s what it is. How can we identify the right pavement, the right treatment, the right time? It’s an effort from our city manager position, our public works director’s position. How do we take our tax dollars and maximize those?

Every year, all of our cities throughout the United States are going through a budgetary season. What they’re looking at is the roadway maintenance. When you think about it, it’s a huge budgetary dollar amount. It’s right up there with fire EMS and those critical services that we need as citizens. I love what you said that the average taxpayer citizen, it’s not that they take it for granted, but we don’t realize that it’s about $250,000 to redo 1 mile of pavement. When you look at a small city like that I live in, for example, we’ve got 60 centerline miles. We can do the math on this. We’re only making so much of an impact with the dollars that we’ve got. How do we stretch that dollar further? In America, unfortunately, over the last couple of decades, we’ve gotten away from the preventative maintenance, that pavement preservation components that help roadway lives extend.

That’s what we’re all about. We collect the data, we do it in a standardized approach, and we put it into a system. The easiest way that I found to explain this to people that don’t understand this side of it is to think about a financial planner. You sit down with your financial planner day one. They’re taking a look at the income, the revenue that you’ve got coming in your household. You’re projecting where you think you’re going to be at 65 years old and they’re asking you, “What are your hopes and dreams? Do you want to have a boat, the lake house? How do you want to retire?” All those types of questions. That’s what we do as consultants, except our client is just like yours. We’re looking to maximize and extend the life of the roadway network with the budgetary dollars that we’ve got.

We share clients, not in name but our client is the same. In our case, they are looking to have a plan to upgrade and maintain technology and in your case, it’s pavements. Here we are in 2020 and our worlds are colliding. When my team goes in to do an IT strategy plan, we are hearing about pavement management systems a lot. I remember you telling me you’re doing something with AI where artificial intelligence is going to predict where a roadway might need improvements or in what year it’s going to need a certain patch. How intertwined are our worlds getting now?

You’re right on the money. Governments need to be more efficient. This comes in a wide variety of formats. Your world, it’s 100%. I can only imagine I’m not 100% into your world. What I see from an integrator or integrating systems is in a lot of cases, they have an antiquated process and technologies. We’ve got some that are still on Windows 7. That concept, let alone the networking and cloud computing components that we as business owners and the private sectors are leveraging, and it’s nothing against our governments. As business owners, if we want to go upgrade some systems and maybe it’s a $100,000 process, we’ve got options. We can easily go into debt. We can get a loan or we can work a little bit harder and get more clients or a little more revenue. We can take on an investor and all of these types of options.

Not having to worry about identifying every little problem can help you get a better bird’s eye view of everything. Click To Tweet

Governments have limited opportunities to raise dollars to do these things. That’s part of the issue that I see and when you look at how it’s all becoming intertwined with artificial intelligence and machine learning specifically in your world, I can only imagine how smart networks are becoming. How more efficient that they can run and access their critical information and systems. We’re trying to do the same thing on the roadway management side of the house. For us, that’s upgrading or improving our data collection processes. Providing more map-based and data-driven tools through the help of artificial intelligence. That’s what we’re doing there.

I suspect a lot of your work revolves around your clients having reliable current data in their GIS databases. What if you encounter a client that hasn’t kept up with the GIS data or is that even happening now?

What I see as I travel across the US and interact with our shared type of client. When you look at municipalities that say, “We’ll talk about population.” As business owners, we have our own currency. Mine is centerline miles, I’m sure you have yours, but population is something that we can all wrap our heads around. When you look at those cities out there that are 25,000 and under in population, they don’t have the type of resources or capabilities that other municipalities might have. These are going to be cities that are relying on consultants like yourself or like me to come in there and help make improvements. Reliability and standardization are important to them because they don’t have those types of opportunities. Help me get back on track with what’s the real question. That way, I can get there.

I was asking about the proliferation of GIS. It’s become central like in our work. If we are being tasked with running some fiber, the first thing we want to see is what’s existing and how good your data is. In many cases, it’s either smaller cities that are relying on someone else’s data that’s not being kept up. They don’t have a person to keep up with it. What’s the impact on your work with incomplete GIS data?

Thanks for bringing that back full circle. On the GIS side of the house, that same demographic I was referencing, oftentimes they are leveraging say the accounting system. They’re looking for someone else’s dataset to get started. You wouldn’t be surprised that there are many municipalities out there that don’t even have a centralized map-driven GIS data set. They don’t have that. One attraction or one maybe differentiator for our company is we provide that as a deliverable whether they’ve got a GIS system or not. It makes our job a lot easier if they’ve got something that’s being maintained, they’ve got reliable information and data. From our side of the house, we’re focused on the street centerline, shapefile, their layer, their geodatabase there.

What I’m finding is even those that have a rock-solid dataset, they’ve got a GISP that’s been there for quite some time. We’ll come through now and take a look at what they’re considering their “maintained” roadways. They’ll say, “James, we’ve got about 88 centerline miles we maintain. Here they are, they’re mapped.” We can see those. We get out into the field and we start realizing things are a little bit different. What’s commonly happening is we’re coming back and saying, “After we compared your GIS dataset to our data capture processes, that 88 miles are about 100. That’s 12 more miles, that’s around 10%.” When you look at the impact of that discovery, it’s huge and immense. The long and short of it is I see it both sides.

I see it as strong as tenured cities that have had GIS systems in place since the late ‘90s when this first came on board. It’s been ever-evolving and then we see those in 2020, it’s hard to believe. I’m working with a small city in Florida. They asked me, “James, in your scope of work, what do you mean you’re going to provide a GIS condition of maps. We don’t have GIS.” I say, “No worries. We’ll either pull that from the county. We’ll get it for some TIGER files online and we’ll make it work.” Maintaining an accurate dataset is important in GIS. It can be the central hub for everything to feed through. It’s important to have systems that can communicate and talk against that.

How do you know when a certain piece of pavement is due for replacement or upgrades? I know you can do visual inspections and drive-throughs, but you can only do so much. When you go into an assessment with a client that has 100 miles, you’re going to blow the budget just by inspecting. What’s the automated way of doing this?

You’ve got 100 miles. These types of clients have a budget of around $1 million, give or take, 10%. Let’s say $250,000 to replace that 1 mile. You can eat that budget up very quickly on the construction-side. You have consulting engineers and they want to provide “X” amount of services on top of the condition assessments. They want to get in there and do the planning, design, and build. You have people like me that are turning towards a hybrid. What I do is I provide a turnkey pavement management service for our client at roughly 3% to 5% of that annual budget. That’s a year one process. Year two, for example, will be a little bit of support services agreement for a small amount to keep things updated and communicated.

Year three, we’re going to come in and do the same type of thing and constantly re-evaluate and retouch those pavements so we can start seeing what the actual rate of decline is for these roadways. That’s how you start the program. You’ve got to start with a benchmark. That year-three service is at a discounted rate because we’ve already established all of the inventory and all of that initial day-one data. When you start thinking about this, one example I would give is, let’s say you bought a Lamborghini or a Ferrari. We’re talking about a $250,000 vehicle. If that dealership over a twenty-year life cycle, let’s assume we’re going to keep that vehicle for twenty years. I say that because that’s the average real-life span of the roadway. The data will suggest that by year 12 to 15 it starts to fail and get to what we call the Complaint Line, which is where we as taxpayers start calling.

Is that an actual term?

That’s a term in our industry. We call it the Complaint Line. When we’re doing our presentations and mapping, we’ll say, “How long is this roadway supposed to last?” They’ll say, “It was designed for 30 years.” We say, “In reality, when do you think you’re going to replace it?” “Probably year twenty.” We map and we chart the deterioration curve. I say, “Do you see this red line here? That’s a condition. In 0 to 100 scale, that number is a 55.” This is where all those calls start to come into play because the roadway is now riding rough. We’re seeing more and more load associated cracks, meaning structural. It’s not an enjoyable experience and that’s happening around age 12 to 15 now, not year twenty.

Growing up, we think about getting to our destinations, but we fail to see how important the road we take to get there is. Click To Tweet

I find them a lot on the lot and they say, “I’ll tell you what, James, for an extra 3% of this investment, every single year I’m going to give you the playbook of what to do, when to do it, why to do it, how to quantify it to everybody, would you do it?” I’m not talking about the typical maintenance like oil change and rotate the tires and brakes. I’m talking about every aspect of that vehicle. That’s what we’re doing. It’s protection on that investment of all these millions of dollars that are invested in these roadway networks. The process without getting too technical is straight forward. We follow a standardized approach of how we evaluate what’s wrong with the roads.

There are up to twenty things that can go wrong with a roadway. Our job is to identify it and quantify it. When we do that at scale, you’re not worried about each or trying to identify each little thing to make those decisions. You’re able to see everything from the bird’s eye view, network-level analysis. All of a sudden that 100 miles become easy to see what’s going wrong. You reference GIS. To anyone reading, imagine the city you live in and you’re looking at a map. We’ve all seen the map of the city we live in. Imagine every roadway has 1 of 5 to 7 different colors assigned to it. It could be black for being failed. It could be green for excellent. All of a sudden put that in front of your city council members, the mayor, or the city managers.

We don’t have to worry about talking about alligator cracking, density, deep duct curve, deterioration rates. It’s black and white. That helps create a narrative for those conversations. The budget analysis side of that is we can leverage all of that data we collect to get to a condition category. There are seven of them in our world. There is a direct correlation. Remember, the right treatment to apply to the right pavement at the right time. Through our study, I know the age of every road. I know the current condition. I know the cost of maintenance, and I know what application this road needs.

It’s different for different regions, right? You’re not going to use the same metrics in Michigan that you would in Florida.

Exactly, but what does remain the same is the approach and methodology to rating the pavement. We’ve got free stall and things along those lines. I believe you’re in the Tennessee region. You have a milder climate. You get into the south of Florida, you have a more solar climate. Where you live in Tennessee, that’s a great region. You can even look this up to the American Society of Civil Engineers. Tennessee has some of the nation’s best roadway networks because of that. It doesn’t mean that cities are spending a lot more money or they’re doing some magic seal coating process that’s keeping the roads better. Your climate does play into that. Through a standardized data assessment, we can understand all that. We can say down in Florida, for example, “We’ve got this block cracking that’s significant. We’ve got some weathering unraveling. They can make the roadway rough.” The structure is great. It may look a little bit rough and without the data, you might think that we have to spend that $250,000 to mill it all up and then replace it. Actually, we can spend about $60,000 and do a cape seal, which is a preservation treatment. That road will last an additional 10 to 12 years. These are the impacts that we’re making through the data process.

Tell me about the tools you use. This all sounds heavily intent, depending on what kind of data you’re collecting. You explained how you go about collecting it, but how are you analyzing it? Is there a proprietary tool you use or is this something off the shelf? What are you using?

We are leveraging an off the shelf product that was developed by the US Army Corps of Engineers for this purpose. We are transitioning to our earlier point where we’re talking about better tools. I’m always on the hunt or pursuit of better tools. We’re developing the AI part of it in-house. To the system side of that, of hosting and holding all that data is a little bit of a challenge and there are players out there. We’re creating a partnership agreement. We’d like to sell a turnkey solution. What I don’t like to be is the consultant that says, “I’ll give you that system or that system.” That’s the tool that we’re using now.

We’re leveraging the US Army Corps of Engineers product. It’s called Paver. It’s actually called the Godfather of Systems. Everything that we see in the marketplace is based on this product. Is it the greatest product? Maybe. It depends. It’s all about the right placement for the right client. What this type of system does, or all of these types of systems do is they do a great job of organizing, holding the data so we can quickly report and quickly analyze. Think of a dashboard, for example. You’ve probably got dashboards on your side of the desk. Imagine being able to pull up a system and look at four-key metrics. What is the remaining service life of my network? Is it 8 years, 20 years? What is the current overall condition? Are we hovering at a 70? Is it a 60? What does that even mean? Those types of metrics are what these systems do.

If you invest a lot of time and money on something, you need to protect it so that it still stands in the long run. Click To Tweet

More importantly, is optimization. Optimization is key. If we can teach the system our process, let’s call it a decision tree. The reality is in a smaller type of municipality like where you’re at in Maryville, you’re going to have different access to different types of preventive maintenance or preservation treatments versus in Chattanooga or maybe Nashville or a Houston 6,000-mile roadway network. When you go into a market as a business owner, you go to where you can serve the best. We create these decision trees so that we work with the city and say, “What are you currently doing? We’ll get that into the system. What are the costs associated? We get that into the system.” We can hit a couple of clicks quickly in seconds and realize that what you’re currently doing, how you’re doing it and how much you’re spending is going to produce a result of Return On Investment, ROI. I know you get this one a lot with your services. I get this too.

I tell everyone, we measure ROI based on what you’re currently spending and what the anticipated condition of your roadway network is going to do. I’ll use a number, remember at grade school, 0 to 100. When I came home with 60s and 70s, my parents were not that happy. That’s the average roadway network in America. That’s the truth. You get up into Michigan and Ohio where I’m at. You’re going to be in the 60s. You get a little bit closer to you, low 70s. You get down to Florida, maybe mid to high 70s. That’s the concept. At the end of the day, they’re still C’s and D’s. I have few clients that are knocking it out of the park and those are going to be the clients that have a huge tax base. The revenues come in and they spend it wisely. That’s it in a nutshell of what we’re trying to do.

I’ll give you a great example. I’ve got permission to talk about this from a city council meeting I attended. The town of Arlington. It’s on the west side out towards Memphis. We did their analysis and we come in and present and they’re spending $900,000 a year. They know it and everybody knows it. The question is, “Why are we spending that?” “It’s what we’ve been doing.” “What type of treatments have you been doing?” “We do a little bit of crack sealing, but predominantly we spend about the majority of that budget milling 2 inches off and putting 2 inches back.” The question is, “If we keep doing that over the next five years, what do we expect to happen to your roadways?” “The analysis and the optimization tools tell us, you’re going to drop about four points over the next five years.” That’s a metric there. We can collect all this data in a standardized manner to produce that result.

If I said, “I’ve got a great investment for you. We’re going to take $900,000 and over the next five years, we’re going to lose 3%. Are you in?” I guarantee you’re like, “I’m not in on that one.” Remember diversification or diversify. We all hear these types of things. What if we diversified the toolset from the maintenance side of the house? Let’s say we did a 70, 20, 10 split. We’re still going to spend $700,000 on fixing the poor failed roadways but now we’re going to spend about 20% on preservation products. Maybe 10% of the funds are going to go towards a preventive strategy, your crack sealing. We’re still spending the same amount of money because remember the city can’t print more money.

What engineers do a great job of is saying, “You need $4 million a year to keep doing what you’re doing.” We can’t produce that day-one. We run the budget scenario and say, “Let’s spend the same amount in the manner I just mentioned with the return on investment.” It’s a four-point gain. It’s the same budget, a little bit different. We’re still fixing the majority of the roadways that are bad. It’s a little bit of a mindset and approach shift. That’s an investment you would take if those were your two options. When you talk about the metrics, we’re trying to get those types of metrics in an organized data and map-driven way that the city council members and the city manager can understand. Usually, the Public Works Directors are on board for this and also our city engineers, but we’re trying to sell that. How do we get that across to our taxpayer?

I think that’s the key. Education on what it takes to keep these roads up and running. I bet your clients take this information and use it in council packets and teaching people what it takes. That’s huge in itself. Tell me a little bit more about how machine learning and AI is going to help in your mission. I know you’re coming up with a product. If it’s a secret knowledge, don’t tell me but give me the concept.

I like to walk everybody through a brief little history lesson on how this used to be done. You go back to the nineteen-year-old me. I had to take a mile stretch of roadway and I had to do a sampling process. You take that same 100-mile network we talked about, it’s so difficult to get 100% data collection walking around out there, especially on our roadways that have a lot of traffic and volume. That was a process. Going back to these expensive vans with all this equipment out there capturing roadways. Think about that client that’s only got 15,000 or 20,000 population. They have a need as much as the large cities to be able to capture this information and make good decisions. I was in business for about six years. The first six years, I was doing old antiquated processes.

A few years ago, I came up with a concept of how to streamline this. We got started and everything started through manual processes. I hooked up a GoPro to the car. I captured in high definition, 1080P HD. I sat on my laptop and reviewed it and I said, “I can see everything going on with the roadways. I know what’s happening.” The next step is, can I post-process distresses from this and get that into a system? The answer was yes. I said, “We’ll start doing that.” Instead of us being out on the roadways and walking around, we were now post-processing information and extracting it from the video. This was labor-intensive because it’s human beings that are highly skilled to look at that. When you start thinking about the growth and scale of companies and offering a better product for your client, this wasn’t a scalable model.

We started to get to work on what are some AI processes that can improve this? What are some ways we can leverage APIs from Google Earth, Google Maps to have a better experience? We talked about GIS a little bit. Your city manager, for example, they’re not a GIS user. They know how to get in there and play with the maps that they’re given, but do you know where they are? They’re in Google Earth. They’re in Street View and Google is providing that as a service. I said, “How do we provide deliverables that are very systematic, but they can see them and work with them? I can be in a city council room and bring up a Google Map and have talking points.” That’s what we did. We take the video, we processed it and we put it into the system, connected it to GIS, and spit out these map-driven deliverables, color-coded maps.

We can take a look at different maintenance plans. What the AI has developed, especially over this unfortunate COVID-19 situation. We got a little bit busier working on that end. We had a little bit more time. I have a demo and I’m excited about it from our developer team to show us what this is going to look like for us. There are other companies out there in the marketplace doing some of this. They’re good. No disrespect to them. I give them a lot of credit, but they were born from academia. They received some investments. They are definitely smarter people than me saying, “How do I take the smartphone to capture images and spit those out and provide some form of a condition assessment?” That’s a good process. There’s nothing wrong with it, but what I’m trying to do is provide a turnkey program to a city. Not just, “Here’s a map with colors on it. Here’s a spreadsheet and a flat file.” We want to take that further.

In the next few months, we’re going to have turnkey. We need someone to drive and capture video. Picture an Uber driver having turn by turn navigation. They’re going to be driving and collecting the video. That video goes to our cloud. Our algorithm will chop that thing up frame by frame to spit out an image at every frame for our user. We’re also going to create a map path. You imagine being on Google Earth and having a map track. You click on that track and part of our software as a service is that video will pop up in high definition. We’re now capturing in 4K. We were doing HD. Google cloud storage is cheap. That video will pop up and it’s not 4K. It’s closer to 2K to 1080. It still looks good. Imagine the power behind that alone.

What’s the view? It’s not street view. Is it a pavement view?

It’s more like a street view. We capture with the camera on the front left part of the truck, slightly angled down. You have a horizontal line of representation. You can see the horizontal. We do that because we can still see the defects of the roadway very well, but there’s no windshield. You don’t see any part of the vehicle. We mount that on the outside so that camera hovers central line. It’s a beautiful view. Imagine if you were sitting in the middle of a street going straight and that was your view. These are things that cameras are not able to do from inside the vehicle. It’s good but I want it to be really good. That’s what I’m striving for. Hopefully, that paints a picture of what it looks like.

When we do IT strategies and assessments for our clients, there are always those clients that don’t have automation at any level. They’re still doing work orders on paper and pencil. They’re drawing maps by hand and there’s a giant book in a corner somewhere, public works that they work orders on. That’s the least advanced clients. There are clients that have good GIS. They have a good inventory system, a work order management system. What kind of systems that the clients have when you walk in help you do your job better?

The clients that already had a strong asset management background or program or a CMS, they already have been collecting those work orders, the work history, the maintenance. Those are my favorite clients because they’ve already got good data that we can leverage as consultants to start to analyze. From the perspective of what they’ve been doing, how they’ve been doing it, what those costs are, how frequently or infrequently they’re touching those roadways, we can analyze that as well. Those are the type of systems that I appreciate that our clients have, especially those that are in a GIS-centric manner. That means I’m going to be able to get a shapefile to spit out nice and pretty of about 75% to 80% of the type of data I need to establish the roadway network inventory to further define that.

We do a lot of our stuff from the ground up. We all have niches. Our current niche is working with those that are still not necessarily pen and paper but maybe it’s a spreadsheet. A spreadsheet with 48 tabs. It goes to column from A all the way to column GG. We’re trying to take that and systematize it. Those CMS systems. Anyone that’s already on that track, what we’re about to do through the machine learning and AI perspective, we’re going to capture the video. That becomes the most important aspect to our new process. Once the video is captured, it’s geo-located and the rest is awesome. We’re going to be able to provide that type of deliverable that I was describing. On the backend, our algorithm will identify all the different stresses that are happening. It will be able to do it according to the ASTM standard. That’s important for data collection. We will be able to produce a condition 0 to 100 that’s based against that. That’s the data that we need to go into those types of other systems to further analyze.

I can’t wait until you show me what it’s capable of. I’ve enjoyed talking to you. This is helpful. It’s going to help us in our deliverables because our clients expect us to point them to the next best thing. Anything you want to say in parting words? Tell our audience where they can find you.

I appreciate you. Having an opportunity to get these types of messages out is important. We share mutual clients. I’m happy to do the same for you on that backend. It’s important for our public systems to get better. It’s great to see value-based companies and individuals like yourself on the same mission. I love that value exchange. You can find us at PavementManagement.com to learn more about that type of process.

It’s been an honor to be talking to you and we’ll do this again some point in the future.

Thank you so much.

Important Links:

• Paver
• PavementManagementGroup.com

About James Golden

James Golden is the Founder and CEO of Pavement Management Group, headquartered in Heath, OH with satellite offices in Tampa, FL, Oviedo, FL, and Branson, MO. With over 20 years of experience directly within the pavement management, maintenance, and engineering industries, his passion truly lies in helping local governments to develop better roadway networks through a standardized pavement management blueprint.